DF Interview: Jesse Kellerman & Owen King launch a pulp crime comic with a wicked sense of humor in ‘Self Help’

By Byron Brewer

Down-on-his-luck rideshare driver Jerry Hauser's existence is a bleak one... especially because every fare he picks up tells him how much he looks like uber-successful self-help guru Darren Hart. But after a twist of fate, Jerry is given the chance of a lifetime... which, if he's not careful, may well end his lifetime.

So begins Self Help, a rollicking and gleefully lurid pulp crime story for our time from novelists Jesse Kellerman and Owen King. I caught up with the noted authors and we discussed the coming comic miniseries.

Byron Brewer: Jesse & Owen, it is my privilege to discuss with you what is in effect, graphic novels aside, your first foray into mainstream comic books with Self Help. What led two talented novelists into the crazy world of panelgraphic literature?

Owen King: I’ve wanted to collaborate with Jesse for about twenty years, but we live on opposite sides of the country, so it took us a while to get our sh*t together! He’s such a nice man, and yet, in his writing, he has an instinct for the sinister complication like no one else I know. It made the prospect of working with him very exciting, and it’s been everything I hoped and more.

As for the medium, I love comic books, and I’ve been reading them since I was nine or ten. So I’d fantasized about writing a serial comic. I find the pace demands that the form makes on the writer really interesting and inspiring. I remember the artist Chris Burnham once remarking to me (paraphrasing) that sometimes novelists who write comics struggle to move the story because they get caught up in the details. Jesse and I felt like Self Help made a lot of sense for comics because it’s kind of an avalanche narrative: once our protagonist, Jerry Hauser, gets in trouble, more and more trouble arrives, faster and faster, and his survival depends on quickly outsmarting each new trap.

Jesse Kellerman: I’ve been a giant fan of Owen’s ever since I picked up his book We’re All in This Together. His writing chops blew me away, but what impressed me most was his ability to conceive of and fully inhabit a world. (His most recent novel, The Curator, showcases this talent to incredible effect.) The man’s imagination is as wide as the sky. At the time we were both living in New York City, I tracked him down – maybe “stalked” is a better word – and we became fast friends. As he said, we’ve both been itching to work together for a long time. We have a ton of fun, we crack each other up, and our collaboration reflects that vibe, I think.

I grew up on Batman and Superman, but also Archie and Jughead, and as I got older I began gravitating toward long-form serials like Love and Rockets. I was a playwright before I was a novelist, and I see a lot of affinities between theater and comics: the emphasis on dialogue and external action, the collaborative nature, the beat structure. When we first started working on Self Help, Owen commented that novelists who go into comics tend to overwrite, filling up the panels with words when a single visual detail will do. That was a powerful lesson which I took to heart. Now, ten issues in, I’m a grizzled veteran, with ink-stained hands and a chip on my shoulder.

Byron: Elephant in the room: The “must” question you’ve heard many times before and may prefer not to answer, but you are both sons yourselves of famous novelists – Jesse the son of Jonathan Kellerman and Owen the son of Stephen King. How was their influence and works influential on your journey to becoming writers?

Jesse Kellerman: Although my parents are both writers, they were careful to keep their working selves distinct from their parenting selves. We didn’t talk about writing around the dinner table or have weekend workshops. I wrote habitually from a very young age, and while they were always encouraging, they never provided specific instruction. They both had to find their own ways as writers, and I think they wanted me to find mine.

What I did learn from them had more to do with habits and professionalism. Writing is a craft and a job. You have to practice. You do it every day, whether or not you feel “inspired;” writing begets inspiration, not the other way around. Put your butt in the chair and get to work. They modeled these behaviors for me. Another thing I gleaned – and this is a surprisingly big deal – was that it’s possible to be a writer. I think a lot of folks, even those who desperately want to write, have a hard time picturing a life in which writing is the primary activity. It makes no sense to them; it seems confusing or frightening. And so they never try. Whereas I took for granted that writing is a viable career option. That belief is very freeing. It gives you permission to go for it. If I could offer one piece of advice to all the aspiring writers out there, that would be it. Go for it.

Owen King: My experience is very similar to Jesse’s. Eerily similar, actually. The one thing I’d add is that my parents were not only disciplined about their writing habits, they were serious readers. It’s essential to read as much as you can, to learn how other writers have approached characterization and narrative and so on, and expand your sense of the possibilities. The bonus: reading is a marvelous way to pass the time.

Byron: Self Help is indeed a very different kind of tale than usually seen in comics. I believe it is being termed a “California noir”? Before we discuss characters and plot of this miniseries, tell readers if you would about the world you are creating here. The atmosphere, the canvas on which we will watch the story unfold.

Owen King: At the core of Self Help is a variation on an idea that has driven a lot of wonderful noir fiction: What if you could steal the life of someone who is much better off than yourself? Of course, the fun is in the way the writer reimagines the general premise.

In the case of our story, a big piece of the twist is right there in the title (minor spoiler alert): the life that gets stolen belongs to a self help guru named Darren Hart, who is up to his neck in bad business. More than that, the concept of self help is all about identity, isn’t it? How can we change the parts of ourselves that we don’t like? How can we escape the lives we feel trapped in? These are questions that human beings have wrestled with since pretty much forever, but in 2024, it’s harder to outrun your past than ever before.

I’ll let Jesse tell you about the California part of our noir…

Jesse Kellerman: I was born and raised in Los Angeles, but not until I left did I fully appreciate the extent to which California, and Southern California in particular, is an illusion, a place where the language is lies and the currency is bullsh*t. Part of that has to do with Hollywood, an industry built on appearances. Part of it has to do with the way people have always imagined the West – a lawless fantasyland, where anyone can strike it rich or reinvent themselves. That’s why my own family moved out: to escape their old, cold, cramped lives and make a better one under the sun.

For these reasons and more, LA has always been a great backdrop for noir, with its stories of deception and con men and beautiful sleaze. Raymond Chandler, Ross MacDonald, Jim Thompson, James M. Cain, Ellroy, Chinatown, Get Shorty… It’s probably claiming too much to say that Self Help is our contribution to the tradition. But that tradition is certainly an inspiration.

Byron: Introduce us to Jerry Hauser. What can you tell us, if anything, about his background? Who is he when we first encounter him in Self Help? What challenge(s) does he face going forward? And all without spoilers please.

Jesse Kellerman: When we first meet Jerry, everything about him reeks of desperation. He’s driving a beat-to-sh*t Corolla for a third-rate rideshare company called Drÿvÿr. The fact that he bears an uncanny resemblance to self-help guru Darren Hart makes things so much worse. People are constantly mixing them up, asking Jerry for selfies and autographs. Or, when they realize he’s not Darren, they can’t help remarking on how amazing Darren is – and how pathetic Jerry seems by comparison. It’s enough to drive anyone crazy.

One thing we all believe about ourselves is that…we’re ourselves. If nothing else, we can rely on that: our individual identities. Except Jerry. He can’t.

Who wouldn’t feel a little resentful?

Who wouldn’t make a change, if they had the chance?

Byron: Talk a little about Jerry’s apparent doppelganger (and the person who sort of hooks us to the title of the book via his occupation), Darren Hart. Are there any threads you can reveal here that tie Hart to Hauser at all apart from appearance?

Owen King: This is a tricky area! We don’t want to give away any key reveals, but it’s fair to say that, yes, they have some shared qualities that aren’t obvious at first blush.

There’s certainly more to Darren Hart than his public persona. Speaking more globally, the most interesting and alarming villains usually have some recognizably human aspects – there’s a pathos about them, they’re not simply wicked. (Iago is an obvious exception to this rule, and there are others!)

Conversely, while Jerry is our protagonist, he’s got his blemishes.

Byron: Discuss working with talented artist Marianna Ignazzi on Self Help.

Jesse Kellerman: I’m in awe of Marianna. Sometimes I’ll look at a panel and I get the feeling that she’s stepped into my brain. It’s thrilling and, honestly, a little creepy.

Getting to watch her create in real time has been an extra treat. Since this is my first time writing a comic, I’m learning on the job, and she’s taught me so much with the choices she makes: what to include or exclude, where to place the “camera.” As we’ve progressed, I’ve tried to absorb her process and incorporate it into my own writing – to think like an artist, not just a writer.

Owen King: Marianna is going to be a big star in the comics field, and we’re so lucky to be working with her. She’s such a clever, agile interpreter of our scripts. The tone of Self Help is stretchy, reaching from thriller to comedy to horror, and Marianna’s style has the capacity to hold all those elements at once. It’s amazing. I could go on and on about what I appreciate about her artwork, but my favorite thing is the body language she puts into the figures. The people are so vivid and alive.

Byron: Spinning out of the last question, can you describe the probably VERY different task of writing a novel vs. putting together a comic book? The collaborations, the pace, etc. I always find such things endlessly fascinating.

Jesse Kellerman: The biggest difference I’ve found between writing a novel and writing a comic is probably the most obvious: novels are really, really long. You simply can’t write a book in one sitting, unless you’re Kafka or Kerouac or on meth. One challenge of crafting a 400 page book, then, is making sure it doesn’t sound like what it really is: 100 four-page chunks. A lot of gluing and sanding goes into turning those into a single, seamless text. 

A single issue of a comic, on the other hand, represents a burst of energy, and I’ve found that it’s best written in as few sessions as possible, to capture that momentum. Also, when I write comics, I smoke meth.

Re collaboration: As I mentioned, I have a background in theater, which means I’m comfortable with shared creation, probably more so than the average novelist. A play, like a comic script, is not a final product; it’s a framework, and if you’ve built it correctly, it enables other talented people to do their best work. I’ve also co-written several books with my dad, so I have a lot of practice. What I enjoy about collaboration is the feeling of camaraderie, that electric sensation you get when you’re in a shared groove – like jazz musicians trading licks. There’s also a sense of safety. If I feel stuck, I can call my collaborator for help or pass them the baton.

This only works if you have a high level of trust and mutual respect. When I send a draft to Owen, I know, one hundred percent, that he’s going to bring out its strengths, strip away its weaknesses, and add his own layers that elevate the material to levels I could not have imagined. I also think it helps that we’re both established writers, without the need to prove anything to ourselves or each other. Nothing makes me happier than when I have an idea and he comes up with a better one. At eighteen, I might have felt jealous or self-conscious. Now, at forty-five, I’m just grateful.

That said, I do appreciate the time I get to spend writing my own material and playing God. It’s a little selfish, sure. But as Darren Hart says: Only you can help you.

Owen King: What Jesse says about collaboration is exactly right. If you have super talented collaborators — like Jesse and Marianna, as well as our editor Chris Ryall, and colorist Fabiana Mascolo and letterer Ian Chalgren — who are pulling in the same direction, watch out! If you keep your ego locked down, they’re going to bring fresh ideas that make what’s already there better, and those, in turn, will inspire you to raise your level.

Byron: Owen & Jesse, what current or coming projects in which you are individually (or together) involved, can you tell readers about? Inside or outside comics.

Owen King: I have a handful of film projects that I’m wrestling into shape, and hopefully something will come of those. I’m doing a bit of research for a novel. I just finished a short story that I’m excited about. I’m watching the Red Sox to keep my appetite in check.

Jesse Kellerman: The next installment in the Clay Edison series, which I co-write with my dad, will be out in August. It’s called The Lost Coast and it represents a cool new direction for our protagonist. And for the last, like, 15 years, I’ve been working on a more personal book, reflecting elements of my family history. I’ve gone so far down the research rabbit hole that it’s not clear I’ll ever reemerge. I hope so. It’s a great story.

Dynamic Forces would like to thank Jesse Kellerman and Owen King for taking time out of their busy schedules to answer our questions. Self Help #1 from Syzygy Publishing and Image Comics is slated to be on sale June 19!

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